Here’s a scary thought: levels auditions. You’re at the start of a dance workshop. It’s 10am. Instructors are milling around a giant mob of social dancers. And they are judging you.
This process can shred your nerves.
If you’re reading this post, chances are you care about your placement at an audition. We all want to get placed into the appropriate level, and it hurts to be judged as a lower level than you see yourself.
Lucky for me, I’ve always done well at auditions. Below I’ve spelled out 6 action steps you can take to prepare for your auditions.
But first, let’s take a closer look at what workshop levels mean.
Levels often mean drastically different things from one event to the next. Intermediate class material can be too easy for you at one event, too hard for you at the next.
The instructor-judges try to break students into groups of roughly the same skill level, relative to the student group as a whole. Workshop or track levels may as well be called M, Q, C, and R for all the relevance they have to your actual dance level.
Hence, it’s nearly impossible to figure out beforehand with absolute certainty which level will be best for you. And although you know that, if you feel like you’re advanced, of course you still want to be in the level called advanced!
Whether you ‘deserve’ to be there is not the point. You want to be in that level, so focus on doing everything you can to get there.
Levels Auditioning in Lindy Hop: Best Practices
#1 Nail your basics.
Time and again, judges will tell you this is what they look for in level auditions. In lindy hop, this means swing outs, tuck turns, and the like. Leave out the super fancy moves. Dance with the music, on beat, rocking your basics.
For followers, swivels are pretty important. However, great swivels don’t mean a lot if your other basic skills are lacking.
If you’re unsure what you need to work on, take a private lesson a few months before the audition.
#2 Practice your lines.
At most auditions, the judges will be watching you rather than dancing with you. Having good lines shows that your whole body can dance!
First of all, figure out what to do with your free arm. Dead arms or tense arms are quite obvious and make you look like a poorer dancer than you are.
“Lines” also refer to other shapes your body makes. For example:
- Is your head pushed forward or cocked at a funny angle? Not so pretty.
- Do you scrunch your shoulders and pull your arms in when you turn? Not so pretty.
- Do you push your pelvis forward or arch your back? Not so pretty.
#3 Dress for the occasion.
You want to give a good first impression before you even start dancing. Don’t get all glammed up (overcompensating) or roll up looking shabby (overconfident or clueless).
Wear something that flatters you
#4 Match your partner.
If you’re not matching and working together, it makes at least one of you look bad. Probably both.
This advice goes for both leads and follows. Don’t fling your follow around if she’s dancing with a lighter connection. And follows, don’t dance around your lead, inconsiderate of his role in the dance.
There are many more ways to work with and respond to your partner. When you’re nervous this can be really hard! Remember to make eye contact with your partner as a first step.
#5 Look happy, dangit!
That look of sheer terror isn’t doing much for you. Humans are attracted to happy faces. The more they look at you, the better chance both you and your partner have.
A great smile exudes confidence, outwardly and inwardly. The judges might even unconsciously assume you are more capable.
And most importantly…
#6 Mentally prepare for the worst case scenario.
Think. What’s the lowest level you could conceivably end up in?
Say you’re shooting for advanced. You may well end up in intermediate if there are a lot of other great dancers at the event. There are 2 good ways to mentally prepare for this outcome:
- Remind yourself that the label of the level you end up in is not equivalent to your actual dance level. This can help you to stay positive and not take the placement personally.
- Come up with a plan for what to do if/when you get placed in a different level than you wanted. Will you go through the appeals process, if there is one? How will you get the most out classes? Will you take a private lesson? Do you need to ask more questions or look for nuance in the material so you have enough to work on?
By preparing mentally, you can lessen the disappointment and shock that comes with an unexpected level placement.
One more thing:
Befriend the judges if you can. While I feel it shouldn’t negatively affect your placement, it can certainly have a positive effect.
If you’re not too outgoing, this might be a tall order. In that case, follow this advice:
Don’t be an asshole.
A bad attitude like this isn't going to convince anyone to put me in a higher level next time.
No pouting, arguing, acting pissy, or walking off in a huff if you don’t get the placement you want. These behaviors reflect negatively on you, and people remember impressions like that.
Hold your head high. You have nothing to prove to anyone. You’ll recover from any embarrassment, anger, or disappointment you feel. But if you waste a whole weekend because of it, you’ll never get that time back. Make the most of it, no matter what!
How do YOU do your best at auditions?
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{ 65 comments… read them below or add one }
Great advice. I find that getting to know the instructors is the best way to be placed appropriately, especially if you take private lessons with lots of different instructors. The judges have so little time to evaluate everyone that they have to take their previous knowledge of you into consideration, if only to save time.
Auditions suck, they’re stressful, and they’re very often not very fair.
This past weekend, I was at an event that had 6 judges tasked with leveling ~300 people across 4 levels in 90 minutes when there were 15-20% more follows than leads.
The real kicker is that the difference between the “advanced” and “intermediate” tracks at a workshop (especially for a follow near the margins, who, lets face it, are often pretty ill-served in “intermediate” tracks at workshops), is often the difference between there being more utility in taking classes vs there being more utility in booking a private lesson with the money you saved not taking classes, and, frustratingly, there’s no way to know ahead of time where you’ll be. And if you end up in a track full of leads that can’t swing out, it feels like you paid/wasted money to be humiliated in front of your friends, AND none of the good dancers will ask you to dance, because you didn’t meet them in class when they were meeting all the other follows who got the “good dancer” stamp of approval.
Totally. This is why I like coming up with my “alternate plan” for when/if I don’t make the level I wanted. It’s impossible to predict what the classes will be like. Trying to figure out how to make the most of the situation is tough.
One major thing I think you left out: if you are fortunate enough to be placed into a high level (Advanced, Advanced+, or Masters), be sure to show up to class!
For one, this is just common courtesy. The organizers and the instructors took their time to place you, don’t make it a waste of time.
For two, not showing up to class means that you’ve displaced someone that might have been placed in your track if you had not auditioned. If you aren’t planning on taking most of the classes then don’t audition.
Finally, taking advanced classes helps ensure future advanced placement. If the instructors consistently see you in “master” level classes, then they have to assume that you are “master” level dancer (or at least close).
Track auditions are for class goers. If your ego needs to be validated, compete in competitions and save others the hassle of uselessly placing you in a track.
Good points!! Everyone should read this comment.
Thanks!
I try out for a level, and am judged. That does not take away my right to judge which of the available classes best suit my needs.
If I make masters level, but there is a concept in an advanced or basic track that I wish to work on, I will go to that class.
If I displaced someone, tough.
I paid for a whole weekend of classes, and rocked it during tryouts. I earned the right to take the masters tracks, not the obligation to take them.
If I only want to compete (for instance I go to an event with third tier and local instructors) and honestly think I can gain nothing from classes (I believe I can always gain something) then I would get a competitors pass and a la carte the rest of the event.
Otherwise, people who try out simply have to bring it, not suck up to the judges (rock star f*kers sicken me), and deal with where they are placed without whining about fairness, or complaining that someone who did make it is wasting their opportunity.
Of course you have the right to take whatever classes you want. That’s not what I’m referring to.
I’m referring to people who try out to get a wristband and have no intention of taking classes. There’s a lot of status that comes with a “master” level wristband, but if you are only trying out for the status, then why not just skip and give someone else an opportunity to take your spot.
Some events compensate for this by moving people up a level during the weekend to help fill the voids in the classes, but most don’t.
My other point (which is more in line with this post) is that it is actually to your advantage to take these classes that you auditioned for.
I agree that “sucking up” to judges is inappropriate, but (for the most part) it is also completely ineffectual. My earlier comment was referring to the fact that if the judges already have an honest assessment of your ability, it is a potential time saver for them. I would never say that this will guarantee you a spot in a particular track, but it will mean that the judges will not overlook you accidentally.
I think it’s a bit presumptive to say that judges let people into a track only because they are friends with them or because those people “suck up” to them. I’m sure that it happens (possibly among less respected instructors?), but the instructors I’ve spoken to about this take auditions very seriously and know it’s their job to be completely honest.
Hah! Wristband status!
Usually when I am out social dancing I cover up the band. If I still have to validate myself with the “vaunted masters band” rather than with my movement on the floor, then I am perhaps still at a level where I need to take a beginners course. (I do admit I proudly showed off my first master track band when I got it, but it was a milestone and I still needed the beginner tracks)
As for being seen, that does help. Familiarity helps the Judges in per-selection, which does happen and should happen. But the judges do know their shit. I remember going to events, one after the other while working on my dancing. The judges got to the point that they knew me by name. But they did not let that sway their decision on where to place me. They are pros, and most of them honestly want you to get better, and will place you in a track where they think you will get the most benefits. This is a good thing!
As for RSFers, they exist. They are despicable. They are usually laughed at behind their backs by the higher level instructors. They rise quickly among the beginning-intermediate ranks, but then they stall. In the end, they have lost respect, and fade away.
This is very true among the Lindy scene. The blues scene is younger, and the instructors more susceptible to RSFers. But even there they are usually self limiting.
As for classes, I like taking level tracks below mine during part of the weekend. I greatly improves my dancing… sometimes more than some of the masters level classes. If I have to sit out a class because I am tired (being big makes this a common case) or I am frustrated and do not want to drag the class into my funk, I will at least sit and watch and take notes.
But I do agree I am under no obligation to take masers classes, and I think downward track jumping should be allowed and encouraged.
Wristband status… Hah! 8)
You know, I think you make a good point. You shoudn’t be held to taking every class. You DO have your own needs after all.
I think Brett was talking about the people who make the masters level and then skip most/all of the classes. I’ve done that; thinking I could handle a bunch of classes, and then finding I’m overcommitted and dead tired.
In that case, it would have been better had I not taken classes and let someone else have my spot.
Let’s say two dancers of equal skill have equally “rocked it” during auditions, but there is only one wristband left. One gets it, the other doesn’t.
I think there is an unspoken obligation on the part of the person who made the advanced track to make the most of it. In other words, not to let it go to waste. If making the most of it means taking an intermediate course rather than a masters course, then so be it. Maybe making the most of it means sitting out a class or two so they have energy to learn a lot in a particular class later that day. However, I would argue that not taking classes at all WOULD be waste.
Great points, especially “Don’t be an asshole”. I’ve seen a few people that rather bluntly haven’t followed that point during/after auditions, which made it really uncomfortable for most of the attendees.
Beyond that, I’d say don’t expect to learn the secrets of the universe in a workshop, regardless of level. Coming in to a level with inflated expectations will inevitably lead to disappointment and grumpiness.
A topic like this makes me a bit nervous, as I’m not an “advanced” dancer, and I’m well aware of that fact so anything that is critical feels a bit hypocritical (and while I’ve done several events, I’ve only had to audition once), but these were my observations.
Lesson 1) The best way to avoid getting set low is to aim high. This actually happened to me in an audition. I wanted the lowest audition level, and sat and watched all the “advanced” auditions. During this time I A) Got Bored and wanted to dance. and B) Saw several auditioning follows without dance partners. So I jumped in early.
I was on a different part of the floor for the higher level tracks than later on for the tracks I wanted. And I’m pretty sure the judge that gave me my track saw me only in the higher level track auditions.
Lesson 2) RELAX. This goes along with smiling, and looking happy. It’s so easy as a newer dancer to get overexcited and dance spastic or forget fundementals. Deep breaths, roll your shoulders in between dances, and…
Lesson 3) If you can, find someone that you’re comfortable with to dance with. I know this has the unfortunate side effect of making dancing more exclusionary, but there isn’t (to me) anything more comfortable in a stressful situation than a friend to go through it with you. Also, although I’m certain judges can tell a lot about level between two disparate dancers, I’m also certain that better dancers help me dance better. When I was learning to swingout, there was a small selection of dancers I could swingout with comfortably. As I got better, the list expanded. I still struggle sometimes with newer dancers (Especially when they tug on my right arm on count 4. I don’t know why they do that). Therefore, even “executing the basics” is easier with people you already know you can do this with.
I have to agree with the anon-follow that despite everything I hear from people that know a lot more than me, it feels like tracks make a big difference. Leaders are not the only type of dancer who will decide that they are “intermediate” despite really struggling with swinging out. The only time I’ve ever had a follow hurt me on the dance floor was at an event with an “intermediate” ranked partner.
The other thing about rank is that it wouldn’t be as hard if it wasn’t conveniently stamped on you with a wristband. I’ve heard follows with low ranked wristbands tell me it felt like they weren’t getting asked to dance as much as follows with higher level wristbands.
These are some great comments, thanks!
One thing I want to add to your “don’t be an asshole” section is “don’t test the patience of the instructors or the organizers” and stick to the track you were placed in.
Inevitably, there will be people that will try to sneak into a higher leveled track. This is one of my personal pet peeves. Sometimes those people are actually good dancers and should have been placed in that track, but that is not often the case.
Even if you were wrongly placed, subverting the system comes off as arrogant and is disrespectful to the instructors and students of a track, and can be awkward if they have to call you out on it during class.
Oh god yes… pet peeve of mine as well.
I have seen examples of this quite often. In class rotation I skip past them. They say something like “Hey I was next” I look pointedly at their wrist.
Other pet peeves is when people loudly and publicly bitch their way into a track after being placed in a lower track. Sometimes there are misplacement, but this is the time to respectfully ask why you were placed in the track you were, not to complain.
Also, just because you are one of the event coordinators or organizers (like housing coordinator, DJ coordinators etc.) does not mean you are a masters level dancer. Yes, you may run a local venue, or may be a big fish in your pond. But people from all over the country (and sometimes the world) are coming in to try out for tracks, and some of them kick ass. Don’t play the “I am a coordinator” card to get into a track you do not deserve to be placed in.
Rant off! ;)
That seems rather petty. The skipping-people bit. And kind of insult-to-injury to people who may have been bumped. Also, what if somebody bought a daypass, which usually have different wristbands? Do you really keep track of every color wristband at the event?
I was bumped up out of a a track this weekend, and it went something like this:
me, halfway through class, but a private comment: “Hey (instructor), could you watch me and see if you think I belong in this level?”
her immediate answer: “You dont. You belong in the next one.”
me: “Can you like… tell somebody that?”
her: “I really don’t think it’s that big of a deal. Just got to the next class.”
My wristband was NOT switched, and I attended the other level for the remainder of the weekend. As it turned out, there was a suplus of leads in the higher level, where there had been an ‘out’ follow like every 6 rotations in the level I was initially placed in. Luckily, nobody was a dick to me about it.
See Brett’s comment: “Even if you were wrongly placed, subverting the system comes off as arrogant and is disrespectful to the instructors and students of a track…”
It is quite obvious to instructors and students in the masters track who subverted the system. I have seen instructors call those people out.
I have also seen cases such as yours, and those instances are quite obvious as well.
As for keeping track of wristbands. LOL! That may be how you choose your dance partners. Not I.
I was referring to your comment about “looking pointedly” at someone’s wrist.
Lets say YOU came into a high level track, for whatever reason. You jumped to subvert the system, or you were placed by an instructor due to prior placement error.
If you jumped, it would be obvious to everyone in the class. This would be based on your skill, not your wristband color.
Some people would call you out to the instructor… I would just skip you in the rotation. It would only take one go through with you in the rotation to gauge your level. I would look pointedly at your wrist band so that you, the track jumper who is more concerned with their status as a dancer rather than learning, and thus be more attuned to wristband color, would realize why I am skipping you.
However, if you really belonged, then that would be quite obvious from the first in class dance. No one would care that you are in there without a wristband. It would not be a big deal.
(Edited by admin; see Comment Policy http://rebeccabrightly.com/comment-policy)
Ah. I misunderstood your “looking pointedly” comment to mean you’d skip anyone wearing a different wristband without dancing with them first.
One thing I don’t think I’ve seen mentioned yet:
The level you get placed in isn’t just determined by your skill level.
Nor is it determined entirely by where your skill ranks relative to the others auditioning for your role. (Though yes, it does suck if you would be ranked as advanced anywhere else but the particular workshop your attending just happens to attract hundreds of awesome dancers).
The level in which you get placed, typically, is also influenced by the skill distribution of people who are auditioning for the opposite role.
This is because workshop organizers don’t to deal with large numbers of complaints about gender imbalance, so they try to minimize the amount of pain in each class. Say there are 60 awesome leads and 40 awesome follows trying out for advanced. They might decide that they need to pick the top 40 leads and let the other 20 awesome leads bump down to intermediate, where they have a surplus of follows.
For similar reasons, whether you get in a particular level may have to do with the size of classrooms / dance floors available at the event. Few venues have an unlimited number of large dance floors, so once again, organizers have to try to manage this so that no particular class or floor is too crowded.
One more comment on the “Don’t be an asshole” advice: Along with that advice, it must be said that competing for class levels is extremely stressful for many people, sometimes even moreso than competitions. Under those circumstances, it’s hardly surprising if people are upset or if they have a difficult time concealing their disappointment.
So, while I’d certainly counsel people who are disappointed to try to be understanding of the organizers and the inherent difficulties associating with putting everybody where they want and/or can get the most benefit — please cut those who are disappointed some slack.
For example, don’t call them assholes. Maybe they’re not acting out, but genuinely distraught.
The one I most love is when organizers balance the top track, or even the top two, at the expense of the intermediate track. And by love I mean I think that’s a shitty, shitty thing to do. If you’re going to allow a 10-15% role imbalance at registration, you should allow that at every level.
Huh.
I disagree.
The masters track should be balanced as the selection criteria are based on relative skill compared to the rest of the dancers, not on lead/follow balance.
And the cut off in skill level is not that sharp.
Choosing the top 10% for Masters out of 200 dancers means 20 people, 10 leads and 10 follows. This is a decent sized masters class.
If the general distribution of lead follow for the weekend is 40/60 do you really think that enforcing a two lead deficit in the Masters track will really help the advanced tracks, or the beginners tracks?
That’s just plain silly.
A 10% lead deficit is much more noticeable and has a bigger negative impact in such a small class size as in a Masters class as compared to larger class size.
Then we come to logistics; the type of material and structure of a masters class is often quite different from beginning and intermediate/advanced classes. It often moves at a much faster pace, where if a dancer has to sit out during a rotation they will completely miss the chance to work on a concept being taught.
In the lower tracks, sitting out does not deprive you of a chance to practice the skill with someone… at least for very long.
At a workshop with 300 dancers taking classes, and a 60/40 ratio of follows to leads, as you posited in your comment, you have a total of 60 extra follows. If you have a masters track of 20 dancers and an advanced track of 40 dancers, you have 60 dancers in tracks that are perfectly balanced. And among the lower two tracks, you have 240 total dancers, only 80 of which are leads. This gives you two tracks that have 40 leads and 70 follows each, meaning the follows will be ‘out’ nearly one out of every TWO rotations.
[even if you make the upper tracks bigger, say, 40, 60, 100, 100. at a 40/60 ratio if the top two are balanced you still end up with 35 leads to 65 follows in the lower tracks]
But take even half that difference, a 55/45 ratio of follows to leads. (165 follows, 135 leads, 30 extra follows.)
20 dancers in the masters track, 40 in an advanced track. 240 dancers in the lower tracks, 105 of which are leads and 135 of which are follows. That puts ~53 leads and 68 follows in each of the two lower tracks. Or each follow will be out 1 rotation out of every 5.
It adds up quickly, is all I’m saying, if you balance the top tracks. It doesn’t take much of a difference in overall registration to vastly skew the lower tracks if you place all the mis-balanced burden there. Even a super moderate difference, 53/47 follows to leads, or roughly 10% more follows than leads, gives you follows that are out one rotation out of every 7, using the track sizes in the above calculations. I think organizers should strive to have things arranged so that the outs aren’t more than about 1 in 10.
The odd thing about this sort of analysis, is it assumes a normal distribution of skill level wrt role. Not usually the case.
In the masters level it is far easier to get a balance while neglecting admission to higher level dancers that should have belonged to the masters track.
As for balancing other tracks than the masters track, I have not seen this in any of the workshops. Usually the advanced classes are the largest, followed by intermediate, beginners and then masters.
Masters classes should be balanced as the represent such a small percentage of the total class enrollment. It may seem to be unfair, but who said life is fair?
I would suggest that perhaps an enrollment balance should be enforced. But the drawback is that it could limit the number of good dancers that show up.
The higher level dancers often make their decision based on last min factors, such as how much money they can spend, if they have to teach that weekend etc. If enrollment ratio is capped strictly, then some people who would otherwise come cannot register for the tracks.
In any event, simply make masters level and then one should not have to worry about role imbalance. ;)
If they do have to deal with it in the lower tracks, again the classes are geared so that it is not as big a deal to sit out a rotation. There is much you can do while sitting out, like work on body movement, watch the instructors without a lead/follow yanking on your arm, watch other dancers and see how they attempt the move, take advantage of the imbalance if the instructors decide to rotate in to balance things out.
Get some water etc.
It is not the end of the world to have to sit out a rotation or two or three in lower tracks.
Mike V: “In the masters level it is far easier to get a balance while neglecting admission to higher level dancers that should have belonged to the masters track.”
Mike V: “In any event, simply make masters level and then one should not have to worry about role imbalance.”
In two breaths, you sum up why people find auditions frustrating.
“In two breaths, you sum up why people find auditions frustrating”
Perhaps it sums up why *some* people find it frustrating.
But this frustration possibly stems more from mindset than actual “unfairness” of tryouts.
For instance, I try out for a track, and usually make it. Say I try out for the same track in an event where there are far more leads than follows who are at a high level. A lead has to be cut, and if I am one of those who is cut I have a few options.
1. I feel that the instructors are unfair.
2. I feel that the tryouts were unfair or done wrong.
3. I let the fact that I did not make the level piss me off
4. I let the fact that I did not make the level discourage and frustrate me.
5. I accept the placement, and rock out the level I am in, learning as much as I can, and standing out so that in the future the instructors will know better when they select for the track.
Note that I personally have exercised all these options (never whined to the instructors or cheated and track jumped I am proud to say.) in the past. But these actions were a sign of inexperience and not being confident in my dancing. They were a result of my mindset. When I seek validation through tryouts, I had bad reactions.
Once I started chilling and making the best of the situation, my dancing improved by leaps and bounds and then I was noticed.
If these were correlated or causative I cannot say.
All I can really say is stop being frustrated, or at least try your best not to show it in the class. Give the instructors credit for why they placed you, or ask them politely why you were placed. Rock your class, and try again. It is all attitude and perception.
I was placed in a lower track than my friend and, with an objective agreement between us and our friends, we believed that I was a more skilled dancer. Against my friends advice, I decided to NOT go through the appeals process and I stuck with the lower class.
I learned stuff. Had I taken the California Routine class before? Yes, but I didn’t focus on doing it well, yet. Now I focused on the small details and form. I also took away great things from each class. I also picked up some Frankie variations that I’d never seen before and I’ve been in about 5 different Frankie based classes.
Also, this was a great humbling. I didn’t practice at home before and now I’m working my but off of triple step variations and more. There is obviously something I was doing wrong (probably still) and now I’m on a quest to ensure I get placed with my friend, if not better, next time.
I did watch the appeals process and they judged harder than before. 1 or 2 of the 20+ people changed a level up.
I really admire you for being able to take that hit and see the best of it. I’ve not been dancing long, but I really love the fact that the intermediates at my class all come and join the beginners rotation, it helps me improve to dance with someone who knows a bit more (two beginners can get very messy!), but so many of them have said to me ‘it helps me improve my basics’.
I’m not sure I’d be so brave as you if all my friends went into the higher class me. Luckily my first festival next month has no auditions for beginner level!
Awesome. That’s pretty much the model of what I aim to be. :-)
Take the tryouts for what they are… free advice and critique from top level dancers!
Don’t let your identity as a dancer be dictated by tryouts for a level, and you will also realize that there is actually a lot to be learned in a “lower level” class!
My best and most favorite classes have been the lower level classes. Musicians practice scales, i.e. basics, all the time!
Top level dancers work on their triple steps and swing outs… all the time.
The basics are where you shine when you try out, and the part of your dance where improvement makes the biggest difference. So milk the beginner tracks for all they are worth, bask in the basics!
“Bask in the basics.” I love it. I’ll probably quote it a lot starting now.
The one thing I feel you left out is that most of the time, level tests are fair, and when they are not, remedies are generally quickly made. The main thing in level testing is…. be a good dancer… work at it… long hours outside of classes, and social dances, and messing around trying stuff. All of the best people that I have gotten advice from have said the same thing. Lots of hours of working in front of a mirror, or camera, and doing everything again and again, until it’s automatic. You did mention lines in a mirror, but my point is hours in front of one.
I’m assuming the reason this wasn’t one of the points is because when someone reads this article, it will most times be the night before the test and therefore there will be no time do practice. Afterwards though, if one wants to know why things went as they did, they need to to see themselves. I firmly believe that if one has never seen video of themselves dancing they have zero grounds to complain about placement because they simply don’t know what they look like. And if the thought of seeing one’self dance on a video is scary, that is a big part of the answer of why one is placed where they are.
“Fair” is subjective. Level tests are almost always based on how you look when you’re dancing. Given that most teachers got to be teachers by winning competitions, it’s not surprising that they’d care about looking good. But looking good is not the same thing as social dancing skill, and it’s not even always a good proxy for social dancing skill. I have seen a lot of poor social dancers get placed in Advanced level classes.
If a workshop is advertised as teaching performance skills, then it makes sense to level test people according to how good they look. But most workshops seem to be oriented toward social dancing. It’s not “fair” to grade people on what are essentially performance skills (like making “lines”) for a workshop on social dancing. It may be expedient, but don’t call it fair.
Good social dancing, BTW, includes being able to dance enjoyably with partners at a wide range of skill levels.
You cannot tell me that Nina, Andy, Dax, Max, Peter or all them cannot instantly tell how your connection is just by looking at you dancing?
Movement is connection dude.
Even at my level I can watch a jack and jill and see who has good lead/follow skills and good connection. This ability is more pronounced in the better dancers. Trust me, they are not fooled.
Go to any top level instructor and ask them if lines make a big difference to them when judging for class placement and then listen to their response. They will without fail say that they can see connection and skill through lines.
It is a beginner mistake to think that lines can cover up inadequacy in ones connection or dance skill. This is an explanation for the case where “Man, she looked like she knew what she was doing when I watched her dance, but she was a terrible follow when I danced with her!”
This is due to people not having learned to separate lines from skill. The top level dancers have learned how to do this.
I agree. Although I can’t say I believed that about the judges of “some of the events” 6-7 years ago. I think most top level instructors these days can see a lot about your feel and connection by looking at you.
Same here. But I think that was more a case of me not realizing that top level instructors can see the connection and feel back then, rather than they actually not being able to.
Sort of like what Mark Twain said:
“When I was a boy of fourteen, my father was so ignorant I could hardly stand to have the old man around. But when I got to be twenty-one, I was astonished by how much he’d learned in seven years.”
=)
Yes, an experienced dancer can generally get a sense of connection by looking. That’s also one of the things I look for when at a dance where I don’t know anybody.
And yet, I’ve also seen many cases where the judges got it wrong. Maybe it has something to do with trying to judge hundreds of couples dancing at once. Also, I’m probably thinking of cases where people got put in a higher level than they deserved, than the other way around.
That, and there’s MUCH more to good social dancing than connection.
One of the things that I like the least about the Lindy scene is that so many people treat arrogance as a virtue.
Not only how you look, but how your partner looks when dancing with you. If your partner, besides that nervousness, looks happy to dance with you, it probably matters.
Looking good when you dance has a strong, but definitely not perfect, positive correlation with how it feels to dance with you. Obviously there are exceptions but with most dancers this holds true.
For the time that the instructors get to look at you (sometimes an hour for a hundred people+), this may not be the fairest way to put a person in a track, but it is pretty efficient. Let’s call it a necessary evil. No one really *likes* the process.
Hmmm, interesting points over all. Having been in these auditions for quite some time, I would like to chime in with some tid-bits. Most of them are not solutions to the situation, but mere observations.
(Background: I have been dancing lindy hop for over 10 years, I have been placed in master track classes many times at events like Camp Jitterbug. I have been teaching, performing, organizing etc. for many years. So, you have an idea where I am coming from.)
1) I love working on my basics. I devote entire evenings of social dancing to practicing my basics. That being said, I do not like practicing with lower level dancers. Most often, their connection skills, body movement and awareness is so different that this affects my movement negatively. This is not an ideal situation for practicing something new, because you have to spend significant effort to maintain quality of movement that you can’t give as much focus on the new concepts you’d like to practice. To me, this makes attending beginner tracks to practice basics counter productive. Basics are not things that need to be practiced at a beginner skill level. Basics are to be perfected and they are best perfected with people at or above your level. The students at beginner levels are still learning what foot they are on; this is an entirely different focus on practicing basics.
2) People excel in different things. Judges pay attention to different criteria that they find important. We recently ran a workshop and did not include a leader in our invitation/audition only masters track. I am still torn whether we should have. This leader had a number of things to improve in his dancing before taking masters classes that all four of us judging agreed on. However, he also is not only a very creative dancer, he can pick up and execute unconventional ideas rather quickly. Thus, I believe he would have done well in the masters track and I think the followers in the level would have benefited from his contribution to the classroom, as often times, you focus on unconventional ideas in masters classes. These types of things are often not paid attention to in auditions because there is simply not enough time, however it is worth being aware of. Dancers progress on lines that are not necessarily parallel to each other and acquire different skills along the way. Not all of these skills are evaluated in auditions. Perhaps this will help you look at your self-worth from a different perspective, if you find you are placed at a lower level than you think you belong.
3) While we can argue endlessly about people’s “obligations” to attend masters level classes, I think it is worth noticing that the problem is more drastic than a few people skipping class. Last Camp Jitterbug, about 40-50% of masters track students skipped classes – a high proportion of them being leaders. Towards the end, there were so many extra followers, that I decided to lead in one of the performance oriented classes. I am not sure if this was a service or disservice to the other followers. At the very least, making a record of this trend, may allow organizers to plan better, maybe give some wait-list wristbands for equally awesome leaders – if there were any – who would have made it to the higher level class, had there not been so many awesome leaders.
4) This is unfortunate, but who you know – and not necessarily among the judges – will affect your audition results. If you can find better partners to audition with, you will be able to display a wider range of your dancing skills. Not only that, if the judges know your partner, they will automatically pay attention to you as well, so you won’t be overlooked. Don’t be an absolute asshole, but be smart about your partners during the auditions. Seek out people with dancing skills at or above your level at least some of the time. Dancing with partners who can’t swing-out over and over will not get you palced into the level you belong. It is just hard figuring out what you can do, if you never have the opportunity to showcase it.
5) Relaxing has been mentioned several times, but I wanted to point out some very real consequences of not dancing relaxed. It is hard to be patient with your timing when you are not relaxed. As a leader, you will end up dancing ahead of the beat. You won’t be able to be musical. As a follower, you will end up dancing ahead of your partner, you will anticipate more and miss a lot of leads. This will reflect very poorly on your apparent following skills. Not dancing relaxed will also make you expand more energy or it will make you feel that way, because you will breathe faster in shorter strokes. You will look and feel tired quickly. You won’t look athletic. You will miss more opportunities to showcase your dancing skills. Your fast dancing skills will suffer tremendously. Judges often use marginal tempos (slow or fast) to tell dancers apart, so this will hurt you a lot.
If you don’t find hearing “just relax” a suggestion you can easily execute, you can focus on adjusting your timing, breathing more slowly and staying more grounded. If possible, find some harmony between these things. Chances are, when you have concrete goals to focus on, like these three, you will enter a more purposeful and meditative state and you won’t remember that you are anxious.
6) There are always a few people who are less self-aware/more noisy and a few who are more self-aware/more reserved. Often, you find people who truly belong to a higher level not utilizing the appeals process, because they don’t want to cause trouble and a few others, who cause an inordinate amount of trouble unnecessarily. These people will go as far as badmouthing the entire event at every opportunity they get. Personally this bothers me both as a student and as an organizer. Unfortunately, telling people to be more self-aware only makes the reserved group more reserved and doesn’t quite get through to the other people. So, I find general suggestions like this counterproductive. However, if people have suggestions evening out the playing field between these two marginal groups a little bit, I’d be very happy to hear. One idea is to have people rotate through the first classes after the audition and pointing out possible adjustments discretely to the organizers – as an alternative to the appeals process. But this takes more resources that may not always be available. Any thoughts?
Here’s what an event, Pirate Swing in Ann Arbor, MI, does as an audition process. From a participants side It works out quite well. I’ve also heard the instructors like it. Here it is:
http://www.pirateswing.com/faq.phtml
What is the Advanced Track audition process?
The advanced track audition is different from what you may be used to. There will be two parts to the audition.
In the first part you will dance with other students to moderate tempo music. You may be pulled aside and told that you have made it in to the advanced track. No one will be put in the intermediate/advanced track yet.
In the second part you will dance briefly with an instructor. The instructor will either tell you that you’ve made it in, or that they believe you should be in the intermediate/advanced track. If it’s the latter, you will get an opportunity to dance with one more instructor. If the second instructor also thinks you should be in the intermediate/advanced track, then that’s where you’ll be for the weekend.
In short, one ‘yes’ is enough to get you into the advanced track. You will only be placed in the intermediate/advanced track if TWO instructors both believe that is where you should be. This is a built-in ‘appeals’ process.
Our favorite part of the audition process is that the teachers will provide you with feedback: if they believe you should be in the intermediate/advanced track, they will tell you WHY. This way you will have things to think about to help you get the most out of the intermediate/advanced track classes.
We have complete faith in our instructors, and their decisions about track placement are final.
This is a good process, if you have the numbers of instructors to execute it in a timely manner. I like it.
I like this too. I’d like to see more of it.
Many good points.
Although about point one.
Yes, I agree that practicing with beginners feels bad, but if you want to work on fundamentals, they are not “that bad.” And by beginners I do not mean the level of which foot they should be on, but those who have been dancing consistently for a few months, and can at least do a passable swing out.
I look at it like this:
Say I go to the shooting range to practice my marksmanship. There are many confounding variables such as wind, load out, glare, noise. But I practice with these because I am working on my fundamentals and improving my marksmanship, not testing the accuracy of my rifle.
Same with my dancing. I work on my leading and rhythm and footwork not to test my partner, but to improve my dancing. Confounding variables are inherent to the dance. In fact, having learned to “dance myself” despite the discomfort of beginner partners, I find that my lead is much more clear to all the dancers I dance with, and appreciated even more by the advanced dancers.
Perhaps this is different for follows, but my wife dances with and practices with beginners for the express purpose of developing her following skills, and her rhythm and such. Yes, it is uncomfortable on occasion, but she learns to be a good dancer despite her lead.
Now, for another mindset issue. I am far less likely to feel frustrated with my class experience if I get a beginner partner in a beginner class than I would with getting an intermediate dancer in a masters class. It is all about expectations.
Perhaps the dread and expectation of a beginner dancer being uncomfortable is more of a hindrance to practicing fundamentals than the actual experience?
I think grand analogies are great, but my words may feel more solidified with some examples. (And I also think this is slightly different for followers than leaders):
- I cannot practice having a solid downbeat pulse, if the leader pulses up.
- I cannot practice being balanced on a single foot, if the leader pulls at odd times/unnecessarily.
- I cannot practice not being split-weight, if the leader is constantly split weight.
- I cannot practice good turning technique, if the leader turns you off-axis.
- I cannot practice contra-body movement, if the leader is awkwardly not doing this and I am trying to match.
I mean, I can do all of these things, if I forgo following in some sense of the word: I can break my connection, I can isolate, when the leader is not letting me isolate, I can not match, I can dance in different timing… basically going as far as dancing solo while holding hands. But I don’t wish to do any of these things to compensate, especially not when I am practicing technique.
I am not saying, you can’t dance with a “beginner” dancer and enjoy it. There are lots of things individual dancers bring to the table that you can build on and have lots of fun. I don’t think this is an ideal situation for practicing new concepts though.
- I cannot practice having a solid downbeat pulse, if the leader pulses up.
Then work on feeling what the leader is leading pulse wise rather than what you expect the leader to do wrt the music.
Or work on balance and weight shifts.
- I cannot practice being balanced on a single foot, if the leader pulls at odd times/unnecessarily.
No leader is perfect. Ask yourself, would Nina be able to balance on one foot with this same leader? If so… how?
Or, work on off arm problems.
- I cannot practice not being split-weight, if the leader is constantly split weight.
Really? There is such a thing as following honestly, and not being in control of your own body. You may be confused what the lead intends, but that should not keep you from picking a foot to put your weight on.
- I cannot practice good turning technique, if the leader turns you off-axis.
Then practice frame matching the lead, or how to accommodate off axis leading and turn it into awesome off axis turns!
- I cannot practice contra-body movement, if the leader is awkwardly not doing this and I am trying to match.
Then work on frame matching.
Seriously, there is no lead save an absolute beginner rank newbie who has all these issues at the same time. If they have a modicum of experience, then they can do at least something right(ish).
If you ware dancing with someone and want to work on something, it cannot all be about what you want to work on. Find something the leader is decent at, and work on that aspect.
And honestly, you cannot be working on all the above at the same time. In reality you probably choose one aspect and focus on it.
Finally, why are you talking about “new concepts” when I thought the discussion is working on basics… on what you already know? None of the topics you mentioned should be new to you. You are refining the skills in the face of confounding variables!
Approach the situation thus:
http://bit.ly/Hbvacg
I predicted a response like this and I received it. It is common, in these discussions to miss the point. I find the best way to improve is to identify key aspects to work on and spend focused time to practice those things. You can always find things to practice with most dancers, but this is not a focused approach and I don’t find it to be ideal. And it doesn’t have to be always what I want to practice, although dancing with most higher level dancers, I can practice what I want within the flow of the dance without them even knowing about it. If this is not possible, I can request a fellow dancer to practice something with me and they can do the same. It can be in turns.
And I don’t understand your question about practicing them at once. I never said anything about that. They are merely many examples demonstrating my point.
Btw, I consider all of those things as basics and they were all at some point “new concepts” to me. I suspect that they are new concepts to most people at some point during their dance learning. Just because something is part of improving your basic technique, doesn’t mean you knew about it all along.
If you predicted the response, then you should have known the answer before you posted. ;)
My point is, that there should rarely be a case where you cannot practice in a focused manner on something with just about any dancer out there.
Lets dissect your post (point 1) and see where the confusion could lie:
“I love working on my basics.”
This means that you have already worked on them before, and now you are refining them?
“I devote entire evenings of social dancing to practicing my basics. That being said, I do not like practicing with lower level dancers. ”
Ok. Does this mean you don’t work on stuff when dancing with lower level dancers? Or do you spend entire evenings not dancing with lower level dancers? Or if you do, do you just deal with the discomfort?
“Most often, their connection skills, body movement and awareness is so different that this affects my movement negatively.”
And one of my points is that much can be learned by working on not letting their movement affect yours so negatively.
“This is not an ideal situation for practicing something new, ”
Now wait… see your above statement. You stated that you are working on fundamentals, not on something new. The new dancer may be working on something new to them, but you are refining your basics.
“because you have to spend significant effort to maintain quality of movement that you can’t give as much focus on the new concepts you’d like to practice.”
If you ware working on new concepts, then this is a whole different ball game. But remember, we all were learning new concepts together in our beginning lessons, and learned despite not having great partners.
“To me, this makes attending beginner tracks to practice basics counter productive.”
Now wait… are we back to working on basics and refining them, or working on something new. If YOU are in a beginning track, YOU should not be learning something new, you should be learning new ways of thinking about what you already know. The new way may be how to deal with less experienced partners. Can you see the confusion here? It seems that two different trains of though have crashed and derailed here… =/
“Basics are not things that need to be practiced at a beginner skill level.”
Actually, this is the ideal place to practice basics, both for you and a beginner. Are you going to be practicing basics in advanced classes? (Well, sometimes in masters level they break them down in detail). No, if you want to work on basics, you will get more opportunity to work on them in lower level classes… where they are being taught.
” Basics are to be perfected and they are best perfected with people at or above your level.”
Really? Ok… then you will never get that chance if everyone though like you do.
1. There are no equals in dance. Everybody is ahead or behind someone else at any given time.
2. If they are above your level, then why do they want the discomfort of working with you while you mess up their movement, pulse and rhythm? Or perhaps you think they can cope?
“The students at beginner levels are still learning what foot they are on; this is an entirely different focus on practicing basics.”
Again, my assumption is predicated that this is not their first exposure to dance.
However, last night I danced many songs with people who had never danced swing before that evenings beginning lesson. And I worked with focus on many basics. I worked on my rhythm and pulse. I worked on my balance despite being pulled around. I worked on not losing my footwork and rhythm despite a total lack of it from my partner. I worked on my jazz movement, leading from the body, isolating my lead arm if needed. I worked on being the absolutely clearest lead I could possibly be, and worked on making myself and my partner look good, and worked on making the dance awesome.
Those are fundamentals, and I still managed even with an absolute newb.
OMG, do you like to disagree much? You and I clearly disagree on the meaning of many terms such as “basics”. For this reason, among others, I don’t find this discussion productive.
Let’s just leave it at this: I have danced for a long time and you may have, too. I have tried many different methods of practicing and I found what I benefit from most, which is what I find ideal. It is not all black and white. What I find ideal doesn’t preclude me from dancing with less experienced dancers, enjoying the dance and even find things to work on. In fact, I do continue to work on a variety of things in those circumstances. Working on something is better than nothing. Yet I don’t find this ideal. Therefore, I will not choose to go to a class with beginner level students to work on my basics – I don’t find this very useful.
You have probably thought about what works best for your practice regimen. If you find practicing with beginner dancers more productive, then go for it. After many years of observations, my personal recommendation to anyone who asks would be to go about focused practicing with more skilled dancers.
Hey, one out of five points was not that bad. I did not pick on any of the others! =)
But seriously, the whole “I have been dancing for x and x years” is a poor way to argue your opinion. In fact, you prefaced the whole discussion with a disclaimer of your years of experience.
Proof by length of involvement.
And what I define as basics is exactly what you defined in your list of things you find difficult to work on with beginners.
Among them are:
-balance
-pulse
-rhythm
-turns
-weight shifts
etc.
I don’t know, perhaps we do have different ideas of what “basics” mean in dancing. I have stated some of mine, what are yours?
As for ideal… do you not get that “ideal” is rare in learning to dance? And in fact, “ideal” may be detrimental to learning?
Waiting for “ideal” circumstances limits how much practice time you get, which is less than ideal for your dancing.
Practicing with “ideal” partners means you never have to deal with imperfection, or how to cope with less than ideal dancing.
I am simply saying that learning to make the best out of any situation, or even challenging yourself by practicing under less than ideal conditions may in fact improve your dancing, and that perhaps having such a mindset may make practicing under less than ideal conditions easier? What was ideal to you 10 years ago is (or should be) different than what it was 8 years, or 6 years, or now.
Can’t hurt to try a change in mindset, even if it has been there for “a long time?”
Mike, I get the sense that you are arguing for the sake of arguing.
“But seriously, the whole “I have been dancing for x and x years” is a poor way to argue your opinion. In fact, you prefaced the whole discussion with a disclaimer of your years of experience.
Proof by length of involvement.”
I was not trying to prove anything in my original post. That was just there as a perspective for the reader. I am writing here anonymously, I would personally find the perspective of an anonymous writer useful. This is why it was there.
“And what I define as basics is exactly what you defined in your list of things you find difficult to work on with beginners.
Among them are:
-balance
-pulse
-rhythm
-turns
-weight shifts
etc.
I don’t know, perhaps we do have different ideas of what “basics” mean in dancing. I have stated some of mine, what are yours?”
I agree that all those things are basics and I have listed all of them as examples for basics in a previous post. I don’t see the benefit of trying to create an all comprehensive list of what constitutes basics. The misunderstanding comes with you disclaiming that anything that is a new concept cannot be part of basics. This is not true. There are different philosophies to all of these things and they can be new. I won’t go into examples for the sake of brevity, but you can work on new concepts for your basics. This is where you and I disagree, I think.
“As for ideal… do you not get that “ideal” is rare in learning to dance? And in fact, “ideal” may be detrimental to learning?
Waiting for “ideal” circumstances limits how much practice time you get, which is less than ideal for your dancing.”
I never said you should wait for ideal. I have always said you can practice on stuff with beginners, too, but this won’t constitute an ideal setting for focused practice. Don’t wait, work on something at all times. But don’t expect me to go to beginner class on purpose to practice. I don’t see the point of this choice.
“Practicing with “ideal” partners means you never have to deal with imperfection, or how to cope with less than ideal dancing.”
This is simply faulty logic. ONLY practicing with HIGHER LEVEL partners means you never have to deal with imperfection, or how to cope with less than ideal dancing, provided that higher level partners are “ideal”.
I never said I only practice this way. Even if I did, higher level dancers are not necessarily ideal partners. This just for better conditions for focused practice.
“I am simply saying that learning to make the best out of any situation, or even challenging yourself by practicing under less than ideal conditions may in fact improve your dancing, and that perhaps having such a mindset may make practicing under less than ideal conditions easier?”
I still don’t see where you get the idea that I don’t try to make the best of any situation. I am, like most dancers, challenged by practicing under less than ideal conditions (at least we agree on the fact that there are less than ideal conditions). Perhaps you don’t like my choice of words. Often, there is no absolute “ideal”; on the other hand “ideal” is not a gradual word. If you consider, most things are less than ideal. My point is better stated by comparing proximity to ideal. I hope you get my point.
“What was ideal to you 10 years ago is (or should be) different than what it was 8 years, or 6 years, or now.”
It is. I also don’t know why this needs to be stated. I never said that I had the same point of view for the past 10 years, I simply said that I had over 10 years to try out different approaches. I came to realize that focused practice is more productive for me.
“Can’t hurt to try a change in mindset, even if it has been there for “a long time?””
Again, my mindset is not fixed. My perspective changes with new experiences. I am not sure if it is deliberate, but you have misinterpreted most things I said on this matter.
I want to talk about track hopping. Specificly, hopping DOWN. From the perspective of a student, a teacher, and a staff member.
To better understand my perspective; I’ve been in the top track for every workshop I’ve attended for many years. I’ve also been a staff member with a staff pass at many events, meaning I was free to take any class I liked that fit into my work schedule. This is usually because I would be unable to always make all my track classes or I was on-call and could be called on at any time for staff related tasks.
In the beginning, most events didn’t have wristbands for levels. Most classes were electives. There might be a single “masters” class that was invitation only. Everything else was a fee for all, and nobody wore wristbands.
Then skills improved and the sheer number of dancers rose drastically. The range of levels was huge, and many upper level dancers lost interest in taking classes with beginners. Our current system developed mostly for the benifit of the higher level dancers. The audition process we all know and love used to be reserved for the top one or two tracks only. This expanded further for two reasons; students inability to self asses accurately, and logistical reasons like track balance, RELATIVE skill, and venue size.
As a student, I LOVE track hopping. Sometimes I’d peek into 4 or 5 different classes till I found one interesting. Sometimes I prefer the masters track, but it’s not uncommon to end up in intermediate. It usually has more to do with my taste in teachers than with the students in rotation.
As a teacher, higher level students in a lower level class CAN be nice, as long as they follow the class. When they grasp concepts quickly and start expanding on them or moving ahead, that is NOT cool. Students become distracted from the teachers and start paying attention to the ringer. Even when they are correct. What’s worse is when they start actively “helping”. Giving advice and feedback to partners in rotation.
As staff, track hopping is a pain. Hopping DOWN is usually worse than hopping up. Advanced students feel a sense of entitlement, or that they are doing you a favor by “helping” in lower tracks. They are NOT entitled, and they are NOT helping. At camps were this is allowed, you get a class with Skye and Frida that more than DOUBLES in size at the intermediate level. The intermediate students payed the same price as the masters, but they get screwed out of thier fair sized balanced classes designed to focus on thier development. Not to mention that the students AND teachers in advanced and masters are left saying “wtf?”
Obviously, most events now have a policy against track hopping up OR down. It’s a logistical nightmare, and self-righteous masters students become one of the biggest pains in the ass.
I whole heartedly agree that from the perspective of a student, track hopping down can be awesome. I’ve been fortunate to have the staff opportunities that have allowed me to do this within the rules, and these are often the camps I get the most out of.
From an organizational and staff perspective, it is bad. It is not allowed for very good reasons. You are NOT entitled to “choose the class that’s best for you” any more than the intermediate or advanced or even beginning students. If you want to skip your class, that’s your call, but it doesn’t mean you can screw up everyone else’s experience.
Think you’re special? Think it’s ok if it’s just one person? One becomes two, then five… Slippery slope.
That’s just how it is with our current system. If you have an idea for a better system, go for it.
Many good points.
How about… get rid of masters classes, but keep master passes with tryout?
Then, take the teachers that were going to teach the masters tracks, and have them teach other tracks.
Then, the students who make masters passes get to work outside the main circle with each other? Or choose and keep a partner in a rotation.
Then, the could be ONE special class for masters where it is a focused pratica.
As for the masters passes, it would not be a pass to behave any differently in class than any other student. And yes, know it all correctionists are common in every level, not just the “ringers” coming in.
In any case, starting very soon I have a perfect solution, at least for me.
I will pay for the evening dances, and spend my money taking classes piecemeal if I am allowed, and use any $$$ I saved taking private lessons.
There! Solved!
No more worrying about placement tryouts. I get personal attention on my dancing from awesome kick ass teachers!
No more dealing with newbs who cannot swing out, or whiny people complain that they did not make levels.
In fact, say I spend $xx to fly to LA and attend a workshop.
I have calculated that I would get more bang for my buck spending the same amount of $$ flying out to the same city and book a private lesson with one of the local high level instructors, then social dancing at one of the venues, then flying home.
Oh wait… the $$$ I spend on workshops supports the workshops so they will happen in the future.
This would be a bad solution for them.
I guess it is a tough situation, and I guess forcing people who make masters track into not being able to choose to jump down makes a lot of sense.
BTW, what events force dancers not to jump down tracks?
Just curious?
I’m pretty sure Lindy Focus XI didn’t allow down-jumping.
Lindy focus x you mean? I was not there so I don’t know.
I know that Lindy Focus IX did, or at least it was not enforced.
Yeah, LF X is what I meant. I couldn’t remember if X or XI was this last Dec/Jan’s Focus.
In fact, I can only vaguely recall seeing recently a workshop that did not allow downward track jumping explicitly. I don’t recall which one, but I do recall putting it on my “probably not interested” list of workshops.
Most camps also offer electives at the same time as the Masters class that are open to all. What logic would it be do this at the risk of creating imbalances in the upper track?
Some workshops I have made masters track had some of the classes taught as performance, which I had no interest in. Am I supposed to sit around for an hour rather than scooting on over to the advanced+ class on how to improve your fast lindy?
Frankly, some of the masters level classes do not hold an interest for me, while at the same time another class (notice I am saying class rather than instructors) are just what I am hankering for.
I do see the issue with people swarming certain instructors like Skye and Frieda. Very simple solution. If there is a lead/follow imbalance, randomly go up to higher level (via wrist band) dancers and ask if they can sit this class out and watch. If I were asked for this reason, I would be totally fine with the request. An I am pretty sure that most of the master level dancers I know and have worked with would be OK with this as well.
If there is a room issue, a similar tack or a public announcement could be done… or… gasp… find a bigger venue for the classes taught by the big name international instructors you KNOW will pack the room to the rafters. =/
Jason, your thoughts on swelling class size are quite pertinent I think. This past weekend, I’m afraid to say, I was one of the people who did this. Two of the instructors had a critique class which, on the schedule was for Intermediate and Intermediate/Advanced. There was “+” at the end, meaning anyone above that could go. I really wanted to do it, and raised my hand as soon as volunteers to be first were asked for. As the class went on, I realized that more than half the class were the upper level people, and the people that were in the lower levels visibly felt squeezed out. This is not a complaint about the organizers, of anyone else. Rather, I’m acknowledging that I did exactly what you are talking about, as did a few others. There was no malicious intent, but it illustrates your point. When I realized it later, I felt a bit guilty.
Andy, prepare for more guilt! Unfortunately that class was actually not meant for Advanced.
“(Intermediate/Advanced+ will be the top 10 couples from the Intermediate/Advanced class as determined by auditions).”
I believe the organizers forgot to put in where these auditions would be completed. Also, I believe that since no one was an organizer while in the classroom and that the promised process didn’t occur, the “int/adv” participants neglected to speak up thinking that it was rude.
As from instructor point of view, yes we can only judge on what we see, that’s true. But I still think everyone should level place themselves not only thinking about their dance skills (basics, as you mentioned) but also to be aware of their learning ability. You can be a super good dancer but you might not learn with the tempo of the level you want to be in. That can also slow down the class and make your leaders or (more likely) followers unhappy. So, auditions will never satisfy all the dancers.
But in general, everyone should take all these auditions less seriously. It is about having fun in the first place. If you are willing to attend workshops and pay money for classes, enjoy it, that’s why you are there.
If you are placed in lower level, take the best out of it. You can always learn something new, you can re-learn what you forget and sometimes stuff that you learned before and have problems with earlier, will now work out perfectly. That’s good too, right?
Don’t forget – relax! It is just a dance, not a brain surgery, people :)
Go out, dance and have fun.
I’ve only been judged once and it came as a total shock. I went to a new venue totally cold and new to me, I told the receptionist that I came to check out their place. She put her pencil down, stood up and came around in front of the desk and said ” dance with me “. I could either run because I was terrified or dance. All I could do was dance what I know, so I danced, she was great. After a couple minutes she slapped a badge on me a directed me to the room where she thought I belonged and she was right. I felt evenly matched with the follows and It made for an entirely fun experience. Since then I try to return as often as I can even though it’s a little out of my area. I’m friends now with that receptionist, she’ll dance with me any time and even asks me to dance when she sees me at a regional event. I feel very proud.
From that day on I never have qualms about being auditioned or tested. I can only do what I know, dance on beat, pay attention to my follow and have fun. I’ll let the experts put me where they think I belong, I trust their judgement and by doing so I remain evenly matched and a little challenged and end up with a great time and no disapointment.
Leads know that follows don’t like to dance with someone less experienced. I never dance with a follow who is better than me, and that would be most follows. Even in class rotation, there are follows who don’t like to dance with me, but they will be moving on to Lindy 4 and I won’t have to deal with them. I make use of Rebecca’s tips for not being a creep, but the main tip to get follows to want to dance with you is quality of dancing, which I’m working on.
Your statement that follows don’t like to dance with less experience is simply incorrect. It may be true of an individual, but to apply such an assumption to follows in general is not fair.
It’s entirely possible that some “advanced” follows have turned you down at some point, and maybe that left you assuming they would all behave the same way. It’s also possible that it had nothing to do with your dancing skill. Could be hygiene, social circle, creep factor, bad timing…
One of the best follows in Seattle has a rep for dancing with TONS of beginners. It seems she prefers it, as she rarely dances with many of the rockstars.
Many dancers go thru a middle phase where they think they’re advanced cause they can kick ass with a GOOD partner. However, one defining quality to being “advanced” is the ability to have a good dance with partners at ANY level. Maybe the “advanced” follows turning you down aren’t as advanced as they seem. Or maybe you need a breath mint.